A PvP Analysis on Defense Form Deoxys

It’s baaaaAAAAaaack!

Hello again, fellow travelers and PvPers! Just yesterday I covered Community Day Emboar, which mostly become a breakdown of what holds it back from being a good PvP Pokémon, even with the addition of potent exclusive move Blast Burn. As I mentioned in summarizing that analysis, sometimes it’s just as useful to analyze what makes bad things bad as it is to analyze something we all know going in is good.

Well, turns out today is the other side of that coin, because mere hours after I published that article, out comes news that Defense Deoxys is coming back to Pokémon GO, at long last, for the first time in nearly two years. Many players have long had a (very justified) complaint about not having access to this awesome PvP monster… after all, GO Battle League was still just a twinkle in John Hanke’s eye last time DD was available. At the time, even some players that had access didn’t see the need since PvP was still just a dream for many.

But now? Now anyone that wants one (or a hundred!) has their chance. From July 1st through July 16th, DD will be here for the raiding, including two Raid Hours (July 7th and 14th) where it will literally be everywhere.

So again, just as we recently looked at something bad and what makes it so bad, today let’s look at what makes Defense Forme Deoxys so GOOD in PvP.

Defense Forme Deoxys

Deoxys (Defense) Psychic

Great League Stats

(Highest Stat Product IVs: 10-15-13, 1500 CP, Level 24)

Ultra League Stats

(Highest Stat Product IVs: 12-13-15, 2500 CP, Level 49.5)

Not at all surprisingly with Defense in its name, DD is all about that Defense. In fact, the only notable PvP Pokémon that have higher Defense than Deoxys are Bastiodon, Shuckle, and the still future Aegislash. That’s it… that’s the list. And literally NOTHING I can find has higher Defense in Ultra League, as all three of those tanks I mentioned fall away at that level. Bulk is the name of DD’s game.

And yet, it’s not quite as tanky as those options due to slightly favoring Attack over HP. This leaves it still quite bulky, but without feeling like a pure tank like Bastie. DD had enough muscle for its damage to actually hurt, and it doesn’t take all day to reach its charge moves like Bastiodon does either. We’ll look at those moves shortly.

But first, a quick aside on the typing, and here again DD is left feeling far less insulated than, say, Bastiodon. As a pure Psychic type, even Deoxys goes down alarmingly quickly to Dark, Ghost, and Bug damage that all deal super effective to it. Yes, it resists Fighting and Psychic damage, and that gives it additional advantages too, but my point is that unlike Bastiodon that has only a couple true chinks in its armor, DD has a number of fatal (and rather common) flaws that can be exploited.

But now more good news… DD’s impressive arsenal of moves.

Fast Moves

• Counter – Fighting type, 4.0 DPT, 3.5 EPT, 1.0 CD
• Zen Headbutt Psychic type, 2.67 DPT, 2.0 EPT, 1.5 CD

Well, mostly impressive arsenal. Zen Headbutt is an obvious exception. Putting it on paper (well, screen, but you know what I meant) with its awful stats all laid out like that makes it pretty obvious why NOTHING uses it in PvP, doesn’t it? 3.0 is the average for both DPT and EPT, and Zen Headbutt fails miserably short in both.

Of course, it doesn’t help that DD’s other option is literally THE best fast move in PvP. Counter is truly awesome, and sad will be the day if Niantic nerfs it. There is only one other move in the entire game that exceeds 3.0 in both DPT and EPT (the recently buffed Poison Jab, sitting at 3.5 for both), and Counter somehow still blows even that away.

More than that, Counter makes DD very unique. Fighting moves on Psychic types are somewhat rare, and Counter even moreso. Wobbuffet, Alakazam (as its exclusive Community Day move), and of course half-Fighting Medicham are the only other Psychics with it, and with the exception of Zam (which does still make for decent spice but no more than that), those Pokémon are all very relevant in PvP. And of course, Medicham and Wobb don’t scale up to Ultra League level no matter how much XL candy you stuff into them. DD does, albeit not at all cheaply. Hold onto that thought for now… we will definitely come back to it later.

Charge Moves

• Psycho Boost – Psychic type, 70 damage, 35 energy, Decreases User Attack -2 Stages
• Rock Slide – Rock type, 75 damage, 45 energy
• Thunderbolt – Electric type, 90 damage, 55 energy

Nice and neat here, with moves that scale up in cost: 35, 45, and 55 energy. And all are very viable.

In fact, I think the easiest thing to do at this point is just to lay right out there, in table form, what your moveset options are. There are three choices: Psycho Boost/Rock Slide, Rock Slide/Thunderbolt, and Psycho Boost/Thunderbolt.

Great League

Let’s see what each of those does in the standard 1v1 shielding scenario against the entire PvPoke-defined Great League core meta.

This is going to be a LONG table, but relatively simple. I will list each Pokémon versus all three DD movesets and denote whether it is a Win, Close Win (less than 20 HP remaining), or Loss for Defense Deoxys. Get it? Got it? Good, because here we go!

1v1 Shielding

Told you it was long! 😅

Let’s summarize. What are the key takeaways from all that?

• DD does some pretty standard Psychic things, like beating all Fighters (regardless of charge moves), but isn’t consistent in the standard Psychic role. For example, it struggles against many Poison types, especially if it lacks Psycho Boost, because Counter is resisted by Poisons.
• On the flipside, Counter is more boon than bust, as it allows DD to operate as a quasi-Fighter, beating all Rock types, the vast majority of Steels, and even several notable Darks (like Obstagoon, Scrafty, Zweilous, and Shiftry) that can cause other Psychic types a LOT of trouble.
• And then there’s the funkiness that comes from the charge moves. Psycho Boost makes Poisons much more manageable, Fighters a cakewalk, and is the only way to get past big Grounds like the Stunfisks and Diggersby. Rock Slide is a nice all-arounder, contributing heavily to wins against things like Meganium, Serperior, Clefable and others where its relative speed and lack of debuffing (as you get with Boost) allows DD to win prolonged neutral-on-neutral slugfests, but specializes in beating things like Talonflame and Pidgeot (DD cannot reliably beat either without Slide) and many Ice types, among others. Thunderbolt brings in wins against Politoed, Skarmory, Pelipper, and potentially Azumarill and has the most neutral closing power DD has available (doing the best against opposing Psychics like Hypno and enemy DDs.

Bottom line: they’re ALL good moves, and combining any two of them leads to unique and interesting results. Hopefully this table and shot summary helps point out what is best where, and what combo may fit YOUR team best. You get the widest volume of wins with Rock Slide/Psycho Boost, but there are very good cases for fitting Thunderbolt in there instead, and that will absolutely work better for some teams.

No shields

And now the same thing with shields down, where much is the same but with some key differences:

• With Rock Slide, Altaria, Alolan Marowak, and Tropius are now within reach. Double Rock Slide also beats Skarmory, which is a nice pickup. (Only Thunderbolt could beat Skarm with shields in play.)
• Double Psycho Boost brings down Venusaur, Nidoqueen, and Swampert, those last two being new pickups. One single Boost is enough to finish off Shadow Victreebel and even outrace Haunter! (DD can tank a Shadow Punch, and Haunter lacks time to reach Shadow Ball.)
• Thunderbolt now reliably beats Azumarill, regardless of Azu moveset, which is obviously handy.

Put that all together, and with shields down, the best overall combination would seem to be Rock Slide and Psycho Boost. You won’t get Azumarill, but you pick up basically everything else DD is capable of beating. If Azu scares you, though, running with Thunderbolt is NOT a bad play.

No matter how you slice it, though, Defense Deoxys is clearly one of the very best Pokémon in Great League, and conveniently, even a perfect 15-15-15 still fits under 1500 CP, at Level 23, and with basically no dropoff in performance. (In fact, it’s capable of actually sneaking in a win over Galarian Stunfisk with its slightly higher Attack there. SUPER close though. Hmmmmm. 🤔) Just don’t catch a weather-boosted DD (as they’ll be Level 25), and you’ll be just fine. As far as Legendaries and Mythicals go, DD is actually one of the thriftier ones you can build for Great League!

Ultra League

However, what people are REALLY excited about with DD coming back for over two weeks of raids is the possibility of perhaps the ultimate Ultra League splurge. That’s right: Ultra League Defense Forme Deoxys. And yes, it’s just as terrifying as it sounds.

And not at ALL thrifty. Defense Deoxys can get to 2500 CP, but only once you reach the very upper 40s. A 15-15-15 DD gets to 2495 CP at Level 47.5 (178,000 dust and 199 XL candy, if I’m doing my math right) and for #1 IVs (12-13-15 IVs) you hit Level 49.5 (an additional 57,000 dust and 77 XL candy… again, check my math! 🤯). I mean, at least you don’t have to best buddy it too, but still, that is a SERIOUS commitment, even with 2+ weeks of raiding.

But if you’re willing to take that plunge, the payoff is great. Let’s go through tables for Ultra League and what you get with each moveset. Don’t worry… the Ultra League meta is much shorter than Great League, thankfully!

1v1 Shielding

Here we go, starting again with 1v1 shielding:

So what shows up from Great League has similar results, though with a couple differences. Cresselia flips from a Loss at GL level to a (really close but consistent) win here. Swampert becomes easier to outlast as well. Registeel goes the other way, slipping from a consistent win in GL to a much closer win or even a loss in UL. But otherwise it’s much the same.

The other trends should be familiar too: beat Fighters and Ices, toss up with Charmers, Grasses put up a REALLY tough fight, lose to Ghosts and Darks. Notable wins that are nice to see include Scizor, Togekiss, Granbull, Snorlax, and Escavalier, and while some are closer than others, DD beats all those with any charge move combination.

In fact, the only really notable outliers are Venusaur and Clefable (need RS/PB to outrace them), Toxicroak and Swampert (gotta have PB), Registeel (need Thunderbolt to finish it off), and Talonflame (requires Rock Slide). Again, most of those are the same way at GL level too.

No shields

With shields down, is this also basically just bigger Great League? Let’s see….

Yeah, very similar. The big changes are beating Registeel (was always a loss with shields down in GL) and losing to Swampert (usually a win in GL). Otherwise, shieldless matchups in GL have almost eerily similar results here. DD is nothing if not consistent!

So there is one more pretty important meta to look at still, but first I wanted to do a quick aside. As a reminder, DD has an absolutely filthy 72% win rate against the core meta at its best, and believe it or not, it’s even higher against the entirety of Ultra League… a whopping 84%. That’s just unheard of. Even Altered Giratina tops out at 80% (and a humble 50% against the core meta). Make no mistake: DD stands for Double Dominant in Ultra.

But it’s NOT unbeatable. It has no answer to Ghosts, even Gengar… unlike Haunter in GL, DD cannot knock Gengar out here with a single Psycho Boost blow, with Gengar living to answer back with a lethal Shadow Ball. The Giratinas absolutely destroy it, regardless of moves on either side. In fact, most of the good Dragons manage to at least tie it (Dragonite), if not beat it outright (Goodra, Latios/Latias). Alolan Muk holds it at bay. And while only a small handful show up in the listed core meta, many Bugs, Poisons, and even Steels manage to outlast DD. Big beefy Psychics like Cresselia and Lugia at least check it, if not beating it outright. And if you’re willing to commit both shields to the cause, DD stumbles a bit, losing now to things like Swampert, Talonflame, and all the Charmers. You WILL need to have a plan to handle it, but there are ways around it.

Ultra League Remix

But now, there’s one more important format to cover: the new Ultra League Remix.

It’s no secret that the many bans in the format are probably going to make the “XL Great League” problem worse, not better. Next time around I wouldn’t be surprised to see many XLs (including DD) on the ban list as their usage is only going to rise moving forward, but for now, we’re stuck with a lot of them and they are likely to dominate Remix.

Thankfully there ARE ways to compete–and handle DD in particular–without necessarily needing to dip into the XL waters. And while Defense Deoxys is currently ranked #2 in UL Remix and some of its top Open UL counters are banned (including Altered Giratina, Alolan Muk, Clefable, Umbreon, Swampert, Venusaur, and Cresselia), it is arguably no harder to handle than in open UL… it just requires adjusting your team to compensate.

1v1 shielding

Let’s take a look, starting again with 1v1 shielding:

Again, the Ghosts handle it easily, and even with Altered Giratina banned, Origin Gira and other standouts like Gengar, Drifblim, and Jellicent are still here. And while the latter two are usually going to be XL, admittedly, here’s a nice factoid: non-XL Jelli loses only Politoed and Skarmory that XL Jelli is able to beat, and non-XL Drifblim holds all the same wins as XL Blim except Scrafty, although several of those wins are tighter contests, of course. Yes, non-XL ARE not surprisingly worse, but my point is that if you can’t take them into XL range, they can still compete and still bludgeon DD.

Other than things ported over from Open UL, other notable DD losses include Gliscor and Lugia (no XL required), Blastoise (XL better but not strictly required), and XLs like Alolan Ninetales (Powder Snow variant), Bronzong, Mandibuzz, and yes, Galarian Stunfisk. (Even a slightly underpower Fisky can still get the job done.) Additionally, Meganium can pull it out against anything but very top tier IV, fully maxed DD (and beats even the best of the best DDs that do not specifically have the RS/PB moveset), and Typhlosion may want Shadow Claw here, with which it gives DD a LOT of trouble and, like Meg, beats any moveset not built around RS. Even Toxicroak and Nidoqueen have outs depending on how their matches go, especially if you opt not to run with Psycho Boost.

What I’m seeing shape up here is that DD has some blind spots, but can shore most of them up with Rock Slide/Psycho Boost, though the timing of when to use each of those moves is rather key to ensuring victory.

No shields

Does that hold up with shields removed from the equation?

Good and bad here. What’s different from 1v1 shielding?

• Lugia flips to a DD win with shields down with any moveset except PB/TB. Others like Meganium and Toxicroak remain wins with the above-recommended RS/PB moveset and are more efficient wins now that leave DD with more breathing room. That’s all good.
• The bad is that RS/PB now loses to Skarmory and Regirock… DD needs Thunderbolt to beat those two. Hmmmm.

The end result is that with shields down, it is Thunderbolt/Psycho Boost that ends up with the most wins, losing Lugia and Meganium but managing to beat everything else that other movesets win against.

That all said, I think my recommendation for moveset to run in Ultra League Remix is still Rock Slide/Psycho Boost. It has the best record with any shields in play (and yes, is best in 2v2 shielding as well, I did check) and is the most versatile, giving DD its best chance of punching out of the most matchups even in bad spots. It’s the moveset I would expect most (though not all) opposing DDs will be utilizing as well (and is PvPoke’s first recommendation too).

Specific IVs

So that’s it… well, almost. I’ve had specific requests for IVs to target, so I wanted to at least cover some of the highlights there. Remember that DD can ONLY be procured with “raid level” IVs, and cannot be traded. That means it will always have a floor of 10-10-10 IVs. But that doesn’t mean there are not IVs to still target!

I promise I’ll keep this short and relatively high level, as I know your brain is probably beginning to leak out your ears by now. So I will stick with just the recommended moveset of Counter/Rock Slide/Psycho Boost, and start at the top and move backwards:

• In Ultra League Remix, where #1 IVs are 12-13-15, #1 IV DD wins the mirror match, can eke out a win (rather than a mere tie) over Dragonite, and can also JUST manage to outrace Alolan Ninetales, though that one is well within the margin of error (AKA lag). Also worth consideration is max Attack DD (15-11-10), which has an easier time against PowderTales by sneaking in a KO Psycho Boost at the end, and rather easily outraces Dragonite and now wins big, but does unfortunately lose to Meganium and loses the mirror match.
• In Open Ultra, other than the already-noted Dragonite differences, #1 IV DD again wins the mirror and has another key potential pickup: Registeel, skirting by with 1 HP left in the bank. Whew! Max Attack DD seems objectively worse here though, losing now to Cresselia and with no notable gains.
• And back down to Great League to close it out. #1 IV DD gains a win over Politoed, though it loses Unovan Stunfisk in the process. So even better is max Attack DD, which cannot beat Politoed but re-gains Stunfisk… and can potentially pick up Galarian Stunfisk too. Even 15-15-15 IVs does that too!

Alright, that’s all I got. Even I’m exhausted after all that, so I will show mercy and release you to go raid your butts off.

Conclusion

It’s not easy, but I will attempt to do a quick TL;DR before we part ways….

• Defense Forme Deoxys is very good in every format it fits in. That’s not new, but it’s good to be reminded. The hype is very real, and with XL candy being able to be stockpiled by those who choose to do so for the next two+ weeks, it WILL become a part of Ultra League moving forward, and will loom very large in Ultra League Remix as well.
• DD generally handles most Fighters, Charmers, Fires, Normals, Ices, Rocks, Steels, and the majority of Grasses, though there are exceptions, of course. (Venusaur, Talonflame, Registeel, and a few others can be problematic depending on moves and IVs and such.)
• The best ways to beat DD are Ghosts (who do it most consistently, even when underpowered in UL), most Grounds and Bugs, the big name Darks (though with Counter in play, those are somewhat wars of attrition), and bulky Psychics like Lugia and Cresselia. That’s not the entire list, of course, but it does make up the bulk of it.
• ALL of DD’s charge moves are viable, but the most versatile and usually most effective set is usually Rock Slide/Psycho Boost. Thunderbolt does have some exciting things going for it (like Azu and Skarm in GL, and Skarm and Registeel in UL), but it’s generally just a little behind.

Alright, I’m done. (And there was great rejoicing.) Hopefully through all this, you better understand not just that DD is good, but WHY it’s good, and what different moves are good against. I would hope that whether you came in thinking you knew everything there is to know about Defense Deoxys, or came in a complete newbie trying to catch your first one during this event, you can walk away now knowing at least something you didn’t know before.

Until next time (likely Great League Remix 2.0!), you can always find me on Twitter with near-daily PvP analysis nuggets or Patreon with its tie-in Discord server you can access to get straight through to me for personalized answers to your questions.

Continued thanks to my PvP friends, local and around the world, who have lent their own ideas and suggestions over the last two and a half years of PvP play, and helped teach me to be a better player and student of the game. And thank you for reading… I appreciate your attention and encouragement.

Catch you next time, and good luck out there, Pokéfriends!

(Original Reddit post can be found here.)

(Photo credit for another sweet header image to Raydenkusumo, who reached out to design it for this article. Thanks again!)