Trainers,

Niantic has increased the motivation decay rate for all Pokemon placed in gyms, including sub 3000 CP defenders. The official change log says the following:

Resolved a motivation decay bug impacting Pokémon with less than 3000 CP.

But we’ve observed a huge increase in motivation decay, roughly 1.35% – 1.5% every 10 minutes, resulting (on average) in a 10% motivation loss per hour. We’re unable to confirm, but early observations suggest that the decay is tied to the defender Combat Power.

Gym turnover will become much more frequent with this change, especially in the morning, when defenders are low and Trainers are asleep.

We’re not against this change, especially after the Remote Feeding feature has been enabled, however, gym difficulty has been significantly decreased.

  • Robdebobrob

    So basically stop wasting stardus on defenders cause youre always gonna lose. You were always gonna lose cause even if someone goes bust on your pokemon it drops 40 cp so they can just repeat it untill they can defeat it. Now you are gonna lose even faster. This is great for people whitout jobs and nothing better to do all day, for everyone with a job, not so much. Im against the change…

  • Peg Janssens

    I’m also against,
    Max i can defend a gym is 7 hours, to short for my 50 coins, then i’m at work and can’t do anythinf for a whole day, when i’m done, as soon as i put pokemon in a gym it gets kicked out, i have to wait till after 24u middle in the night, when the kids are asleep, Now it’s gonna be shorter even, as soon as the heart is as low so you only have to battle 1 time to defeat,

    People are just gonna wait till the pokemon motivation is as low as it can get then attack the gym, why waste potions and revives if you can wait a few hours till the motiviation is alsmost 0.

    Why waste revives and potion if you know your mon is gonna kicked out within a 1 hour?

    I’m not against if Niantic raises the coin per xx minutes you get (at least double it, 50 coins for 4 hours defending Also, why waste berries, (except for the banana’s) remote berries is a waste, it doesn’t impact alot.

    Niantic doesn’t love gamers, as soon as the app goes up in popularity, Niantic does something again to drive gamers away! The Gym system was perfect like it was, nowhere cp3000+ pokemon in gyms and you had to battle to take over, not wait till it goes down by itself almost
    I just lost 50% of motivation by this news to battle gyms :/

    • Andrej Petrovskiy

      >> Anyway you drop out of your bag hundrets of potions and revives.

  • Hector D. Garcia

    Pokemon gets less motivation when we feed them through the Remote Feeding feature than actually being in front of the gym and feeding them!!! What’s up with that??? :

    • Dan

      That’s designed into the feature, which was also announced when they added the feature, before temporarily disabling it to resolve the shadow ban issue.

    • Robdebobrob

      Im all for that. If you get full motivation by just sitting on your couch you defeat the purpose of the game. Even tough i have given a few goldens already to save a gym, i wouldnt mind to see the entire “remote feeding” dissapear.

      • Dan

        I’m on board with it staying. Some a-hole in my town was taking just me out of all my gyms so I wouldn’t get coin (I have subsequently called him out on it, and he owned up to it). Golden Razz remotely got him to stop.

  • waraw1968

    As millions of players worldwide already commented; the competitiveness in gyms is gone. All changes Niantic does, makes no improvement. Where is the motivation in the gym defending system?
    As l have suggested before, this could solve it all about gym defence: Introduce a new parameter, GP (= Gym Power), for all pokemons, where both existing CP and HP is calculated into GP. In the formula HP counts more than CP. GP is definately better and more fair than the lousy CP system in gyms before.
    The result then would be that the best defenders occupy the gym, giving meaning to actually defending a team’s gym. Raising the daily coins would also help.
    The idea is that the team members compete or cooperate to create the best defending lineup. A better Pokemon (= stronger defender) replaces one already in the gym, if higher GP. Call it prestiging, which would give meaning to power up Blissey etc. And, of course, we don’t need to see or accept stupid poor defenders like a 50 CP whatever. Changes that will motivate, I guess…

    • Dan

      The motivation for defending is simple: if you have a gold gym badge, you get better items and a higher catch rate for raid bosses at that gym.

      • Robdebobrob

        “and a higher catch rate for raid bosses at that gym”. Do you have a source for that? i didnt read that anywhere yet. If thats true then i have to go outside and get some more golds :p

        • Dan

          Dammit, I got my badges and medals crossed. If you have gold MEDALS based on the typing, then you have a higher catch probability. The better quality items for the raid still stands, tho.

        • Dan

          However, you get more than twice the amount of items at a gold gym for each spin (5 vs 2), and your 7 day streak will yield roughly 35 items. It’s well worth it to get gold in those gyms.

      • waraw1968

        If you get a golden gym, after 16 days defending (right?), that’s just fine, but actually it doesn’t raise the motivation at all. At least not for me, as I think the raid system also sucks. Catch rate, who cares? It’s just a low level 20 pokemon, like from an egg. Better catch level 30 in the wild! All raidbosses should be soloable, based on the lineup of your best pokemons, where the CP is converted to match the boss’ level. And items? Well, I have no experience with items from goldgyms. What are they? Probably the same I have in my often full bag – having to waste revives, berries etc. It’s difficult to see that goldgym makes an interesting difference…

        • Dan

          Low level 20? I’ve witnessed (and actually help on one occasion) several people get 100% IV raid bosses. The one I helped catch was an Articuno. There’s even a re-roll glitch where if you don’t like the CP level of the Pokemon, you can back out and get right back in to increase the CP. Honestly, I have several gold badges, and have noticed a difference in items and catching.

          • waraw1968

            It is still level 20. Which also could be improved in the game…

            Raid is this (in London): 15 shows up to take Lugia. Battle starts. 10 fights in arena. 5 waiting outside to get a free chance to catch the raidboss. Just waiting for the 10 players to do and finish the job. Parasites. Fair? System sucks. I don’t wanna help or rely on anybody. Soloable raids, please. All bosses! Or remove the raid system!

          • Dan

            So, you’re advocating making the only truly social aspect of the game non-social? Are you high?

          • waraw1968

            Not high. Ash fought alone. Misty and Brock were just friends coming along. Oh, yes, fighting Team Rocket together. I forgot. Yeah, yeah…

          • Dan

            So, you want to go toward something like the anime or games? You’ll have to get rid of the candy mechanic. You’ll also have to get rid of stardust, because there’s no such thing as powering up. You’ll have to switch the game to an xp base for Pokemon. This will cause the game to be completely relaunched, and trainers will lose EVERYTHING. That’s not going to happen. Other changes that will need to happen: PvP, battling wild caught Pokemon, and getting rid of gyms all together. You’re advocating changing the entire game and starting from scratch. That means you must be high.

          • Robdebobrob

            I got an 100IV tyranitar from raids, good luck catching those in the wild. That saves my 125 candys from evolving. And thats just 1 example. Also if you dont want parasites, go in a private battle with people willing to fight. We only do those so spoofers dont get a chance in. If you want to play pokemon alone, i suggest the gameboy for you. GO is supposed to be a social game.

            Also, 21 days defending for a gold badge.

          • Dan

            21 days if you do nothing else. Berry feeding, attacking, raids, etc, will all garner badge experience.

          • waraw1968

            Well, I want to catch a good Tyranitar, or any Pokemon for that matter, on level 30. Doesn’t need to be a perfect 100%. Moveset is more important. Level 20-pokemons from eggs or raids are transfered. As soon as (or if) Articuno and Lugia are caught on level 30, those from raids will be transfered. Who wants to power them up from level 20? Obviously we play and think differently, and I know many agree with me, although you don’t. Pokemongohub could easily run a survey, and you would see the result for yourself.

          • eMike

            Re-roll glitch is not working actually. The number have changed, but nothing more. When you get your pokemon it still on the first CP level(not the one you get after re-enter)

          • Patti Bennett

            Level and IVs are not the same thing. Level 20 is low.

          • Dan

            Level 20 is not low. If it was any higher, NO ONE would be able to catch them.

          • Patti Bennett

            Please, speak for yourself.

          • Dan

            I’ve caught 1 of 6 Moltres so far. I know people with a lower catch rate. I’m absolutely not speaking for myself.

    • Partysaurus Rex

      The current systems allows for higher turnover, and a healthier mix of pokemon. You can’t honestly believe that the “set it and forget it” method of gyms is/was more fun. Fun because you got more coins? What were you doing that was more fun? Was it fun to see a wall of Blisseys with the inevitable Tyrranitar/Dragonite on top? By no means is it perfect, but it is far superior than before. IMO if you aren’t there to defend it, your pokemon or your gym… it should be a cakewalk to take it down.

      As “defenders” trainers should have a dramatically increased range to ACTIVELY defend gyms.

      But we in no way should be advocating for passive defense of said gyms just because you like seeing your avatar in as many gyms as possible. This is why players shouldn’t influence development.

      • waraw1968

        It is more fun to take on a challenge and get paid for that, so, yes, 100 coins and 5000 stardust a day was more fun. More motivation to keep playing. I never said the old CP Gym system was perfect. That’s why I suggested, then and now, to introduce gym power, which would bring competitiveness between players back. And giving the phrase defending a gym meaning. Now you see gyms with 6 low CP pokemons, called spam. Who wants to take them down and find it motivating? Now you don’t need Stardust anymore, cause whatever you put in there will do the job. Why power up? Just wonderful. Not!
        Ok, fine, keep the berry feeding and six (or more) different pokemons in the gym, but make it worth fighting for and defending. Give it meaning and motivation. Why not Gym Power?
        And about active play; remote feeding is? Remember people have a life…

        • Partysaurus Rex

          “Remember people have a life…”
          That’s rich!
          Which is it? Because maintaining 10+ gyms of the old system was super time intensive unless you were cheating.

          Oh you just liked the monopoly you could have on gyms. Explain to me again how the “set it and forget it” method was fun? I’m a little slow I guess… I do however know the difference between rewarding and “fun”.

          It sounds to me that you liked the fact that it was actually minimal effort and greater reward long term (potentially assuming no one kicks you out) You put in the effort up front… and then benefit from it for WEEKS.

          If you had a buddy who was an opposing team… you could actually just have them kick out the bottom scrub… and then you just need to place a pokemon with a higher CP than the 4-6 deep Blissey wall. It wasn’t fun, it wasn’t dynamic, it was riddled with cheaters/spoofers.

          • waraw1968

            Well, I had a Granbull in a gym for 17 days in London. No gold gym badge – only 50 coins after all these days. When kicked out. I didn’t have to take down the gym first, just add my Granbull. Free slot. Job done. Waiting for pay time.

            Poor paid, I must say. In the old system, I would probably get 100 coins and 500 Stardust from that gym and others every day – a huge difference.

            Of course it affects motivation. And yes, I put in the effort up front etc. I don’t wanna spend time on walking around taking down gyms occupied by spam, cause it’s just so damn boring. IMO, changes made have ruined the game and most players motivation, as the gym gameplay has become “children’s playground”. Berry feeding?Just taste the words. Children, yes. Definately.

            At least I feel it that way, or you can say it like this: Niantic spit in the face of serious, strong players who spent a lot of time and probably money to get up there…

            About the Blissey walls, I can agree to that, but actually Blissey is THE DEFENDER in the game. So far. Worse was the lineup of high CP Dragonites – illustrating the stupidity of the old CP-based gym system. Not good enough. The new gym system isn’t good enough either…

          • Dan

            So, instead of just complaining about it, what is your suggestion to fixing it?

          • waraw1968

            Read what I write…

          • Dan

            Gym power is a terrible idea, and basing it purely on HP is probably the worst idea when it comes to gyms. If you going to base it on anything, base it on defense. It makes a more variety of pokemon useful.

          • waraw1968

            Well, HP determines a pokemon’s strength of defence.
            My suggestion was to combine CP and HP to get GP, and I presented a formula once involving CP, HP and IV. From that formula a Hypno with good stats would be more worthy than a weak Dragonite in the gym. Anyway, HP should count more when it comes to defence. IMO.

          • Dan

            No, defense determines strength of defense. HP determines how many hits it can take (hence why HP stands for Hit Points). You’d be making Blisseys even stronger than they already are, and impossible to beat. And nothing should be impossible.

          • Dan

            “If you had a buddy who was an opposing team… you could actually just have them kick out the bottom scrub… and then you just need to place a pokemon with a higher CP than the 4-6 deep Blissey wall. It wasn’t fun, it wasn’t dynamic, it was riddled with cheaters/spoofers.”

            There’s someone in my town that would do it. It would take literally 5 minutes at most.

    • Jackbot92

      That’s a terrible idea, a low level player will HATE this lol

  • eMike

    Do they play their own game?

    • waraw1968

      Good question – changes make you wonder

    • Joe Oliva

      Never forget the Tentacruel dude.

    • Daniel Doiron

      this is all to make players make do more raids, to get more berries, buy more pass, spend more money, always about money for them.

      • waraw1968

        If they really want players to spend money, they should start selling Stardust-packages…

        • Finn Brown

          yeah they would make so much from that

  • Mandy Kota

    I think this faster motivation decay is BS. Also, the remote berry feeding doesn’t work for me. I keep getting the message that I must move closer to the gym to do it. What good is the remote feeding if i have to be RIGHT THERE to use it?

    • Dan

      You have to click on the Pokemon that’s defending the gym, and click “Go To Gym” in that Pokemon’s profile. You can’t access it from the badge.

    • Terri

      Hasn’t worked for me either

  • Dan

    I’m all for this change, however, I wish they would have announced it on Twitter or something so that I didn’t waste upwards of 50 golden razz this morning because I thought my gyms were attacked overnight.

  • raichu DL

    can confirm.
    maxed out 6 defenders via remote feed last night because i have enough gold razzes to spare. i wake up to the gym having shrunk, finding everything around mid-2500s: a gyarados, rhydon, and my exeggutor, decayed to 1/4 motivation. an arcanine down about half, and a lower leveled venusaur and aerodactyl still have more than half remaining. all overnight.
    only my exeggutor has 1 on its victory counter.

  • John Jorgensen

    This motivation change might be one of the worst additions to the new gym system. If everything is gonna lose motivation that fast, then what’s the point to even put anything in the gyms? For the first time in a long time, I was actually enjoying the gym system when it was just things over 3,000CP losing motivation that quickly. It actually gave the gyms some major diversity and made it interesting again. I now feel like it’s going to go back to the way it was before the rework to all gyms having the same six Pokémon in it, which is just going to lead to stagnation again.

  • Dan

    As described in the patch notes, the motivation rate at 1% per hour for all Pokemon under 3000 CP was a bug, not the 10% decay rate for Pokemon above 3000 CP. They were fixing this. They probably should have told us about that, sure, but this was something that needed fixing.

    • Robdebobrob

      Why did it need fixing? What was broken about defenders not losing health to literally just standing still..

      • Dan

        If something’s not working as intended, it’s broken. Which is why Niantic fixed it.

        • Robdebobrob

          Maybe its broken in defenition, yes. But you say it needed fixing, wich in my opinion it doesnt, and from what i read here, alot of people dont think it needs fixing.

          • Dan

            That’s your opinion. The people who wrote the code said it needed to be fixed because it’s broken. That’s like going to a restaurant and seeing a damaged vase that the owner is fixing, but you saying that it doesn’t need to be fixed because it looks better.

  • Greg Kwiecien

    This is definitely not right for the Working person that works in the day and needs to go home to his family at night no chance for him or her

  • Pokemon Trainer N

    This needs to be undone-quickly. By far the worst update yet!!! This literally defeats the purpose of the new motivation system! I just want the old, prestige based gyms back…

    • kristian

      I hated the old system, it made gyms stale and not relevant at all. I get at least 2x the coins per day now. Sure the minority of really hardcore gamers that could take ten gyms fast enough so that they could collect 100 coins are not happy but for the causal players its useful. One thing though is that 50 coins per day is a bit on the low side. 30 coins max per pokemon for the first three mons that return would make it more worth it to get into many gyms every day.

      • Tyrone Sangwall

        This system sucks, I’d rather have everybody get 50 coins for free than this crap. I can go out and take 10 gyms, but I can lose them all before midnight and get nothing. Or I can defend all 10 more than 24 hours and still get nothing, it’s not based on my effort at all. Lately we have been talking about making deals with the other teams to have them tear down certain gyms at least once a day to get our collects. And I live in a city with a population of about 2 millions! I can only imagine how crappy it is for people in the rural areas.
        And, I work during daytime, so the only chance I have of getting any coins is by taking gyms right before midnight and hope that some of them last through the night. I absolutely hate being forced to play at a certain time. With the old system I could decide when I wanted to work on the gyms and when I wanted to focus on catches or maybe just have a day off.
        The old system wasn’t perfect but at least it rewarded the hard working players for their effort and it provided a reason to level up your trainer and your pokémons.

        • Ashley Blalock

          Actually it’s not that bad in a rural area. I work second shift so I clear out a few local gyms in the morning and a rival group clears them in the afternoon. We all end up with 50 coins and people can save their stronger Pokemon for raids that are the real small town problem we have.

        • Terri

          I agree with you. The old system wasn’t perfect but there was motivation to see how many gyms you could take or prestige up to get an immediate reward. There was also motivation to power up and evolve the best pokemon so they could defend the gym for a couple of days AND receive a reward each day that guy stayed in the gym. The new update has taken a lot of the fun out the game. My town is mostly Mystic so the most I can do is see if there might be an open spot in a gym and hope it’s not knocked out in half hour. What’s the point of working for it when you’re not rewarded?

          • vegetano1

            I have 500000 stardust now and i don’t really want to spend it,.. whats the use,….

          • Michal Husak

            vegtano1: I have a challenge for you and your 500 000 stardust … Make all r3 boss solo. Make all r4 boss in 2 and make all legendary birds in 4 trainers (Elite Four concept). Based on simulators it is possible. Tyranitar was done in 2 people, I believe Moltres can be done in 4, Lugia will be an issue, Ho-Ho impossible in for current poekmons …

          • vegetano1

            meh,.. XD did some r3 solo,.. i had other challenges when i still wanted to collect stardust,.. liek catching all Zubats and swinubs XD

          • Terri

            Same here

        • vegetano1

          You only have to keep 1 mon for 8 hours in a gym and you have 50 coins,…

          • Patti Bennett

            Coins aren’t the point for many of the high level players. I don’t need 50 cents/day. The only berries that make a difference for remote feeding are golden razz. Why would I spend several dollars per day collecting golden raspberries from raids in order to collect 50 cents? Me and the group I play with have all decided to not bother feeding anymore. It’s not worth the effort considering the decay rate. Exercise in futility.

          • Diskus1

            I feed to get rid of bananas, I get startdust for it. 🙂

          • Tyrone Sangwall

            Read again, that is exactly the problem, it’s not something that I can do anything about…

        • Diskus1

          If you grab ten gyms, each pokemon only has to stay on average for 50 minutes and you have your 50 coins. Great system, I think, I get rewarded for battling and now I can more easily know that they get home shortly, not stay for a week sometimes.

          • Tyrone Sangwall

            You missed that it’s not up to my contribution if the pokémon gets knocked out or not, it only happens if the other teams are active enough. This system without the stupid rule that you only get your coins when the pokémon is knocked out would be somewhat ok.

      • vegetano1

        and yet you are complaining about coins,.. yes i am lvl40 and yes the new gyms suck,…

      • Patti Bennett

        Gyms weren’t stale. There was plenty of internal churn, if you were strong enough to get in, in the first place.

        • Dan

          Not in my town, and we have, easily, 40 people at each raid. Every gym was held for weeks at a time prior to the gym rework happening.

          • Patti Bennett

            So, you weren’t strong enough to get in. Plenty of internal churn but you wouldn’t have been able to see it.

          • Dan

            No, I was in at least 8 of them. I was never attacked. I’m one of the higher levels in my town.

          • Patti Bennett

            I frequently held 20 or more. It wasn’t about the coins. I defended them fiercely and when an opposing team took one, as they frequently did, I’d drag my behind out and take them back. With my team.

          • Dan

            You literally couldn’t defend gyms at all. You could only take them back once they were beat. There is no way you did anything to defend other than wait.

          • Patti Bennett

            And what do you call this? Lol. Wait until it gets weak then take it. I threw a berry remotely got 1 cp point. Weak. No skill taking or keeping. I’m waiting to see what the next change brings. Hoping they make it more challenging because my group is losing motivation faster than our pokemon.

          • Acha

            Glad to see that other players also feel that the current gym system is worst. It does not address spoofers or cheaters or shavers, even more easy now. But not worthwhile to report to Niantic, why bother when you don’t care anymore. I have more fun before when I need to battle blissey wall. Less coins before because I’m Instinct but at least I feel challenged. The current change is to attract back players that do not like hard work and just for the fad, cute gym family etc. I think after the fad is gone, niantic will lose all players.

            Remote feeding golden razz berries is even worst, cheaters just get multiple accounts, free raid pass, voila, endless supply of gold razz….

          • Dan

            There’s no skill involved with the game right now, except knowing the typing, which you can keep a note on your phone for. Give me a break with this “skill” crap.

          • Patti Bennett

            That I’ll agree with. No skill involved in the game right now. And apparently you have none anyway, if you think this new gym system is anything other than garbage geared for the weak. Go back to your sofa.

          • Dan

            Oh, I’m sorry that I want the new people to be able to participate as much as the people who have been here from day one. I’m sorry that you’re treating this like a cool kids club where you have to do ridiculous stunts to get into the game with the rest of us. I’m sorry that you had to go to insults. But I can guarantee you that I’m someone who understands the world of Pokemon Go, and that there has never been anything remotely close to needing skill. Especially in the old system, where all you needed was to know what number was higher. More “skill” is involved now, needed to know about typing and what-not. But I can assure you I don’t spend my time on the couch. I started 7/9/16. Walked 1016.8 KM. Hatched 1071 eggs. Battled 2828 gyms. Spun 13,152 stops. Caught 4346 Pokemon. But keep talking about how I don’t have skill.

          • Patti Bennett

            I started at level 1, just like everyone else. Played an account but found I wasn’t able to be competitive and play with my friends on that account. So I abandoned that account and started a new one the end of September. Then I played. I didn’t ask anyone to weaken the game for me, I played harder. That’s what I expect new players to do, play harder. It’s not some “cool kids” club, I didn’t do any ridiculous stunts, I just worked for it. I can’t stand people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. And weak is as much an attitude of entitlement as it is getting out and participating. I’m not at all impressed by your stats by the way. I do have to give Niantic credit though, they’ve managed to convince a bunch of people who apparently can’t do math, that it’s cost effective to spend dollars on raids, to get berries to defend gyms, so they can collect 0.50.

      • Zapmeister

        The old system could have been fixed to make gyms more accessible, but instead of doing that they threw the baby out with the bathwater, making a game that holds no interest whatever. As 90% of the posters to this forum are pointing out.

  • Cj Evans

    You know what we need? We need NPC gym battles. It’s seriously such an easy solution that I don’t know why it hasn’t been done. We could never be gym leaders in the main series games. Why start now?

    • Robdebobrob

      Cause its the only way to get coins. For what else would you be rewarded coins if not for gyms in the current state of the game?

      • Dan

        With his suggestion, activity at the gyms. The more you fight, the higher the reward.

  • Daniel Doiron

    this is good because big teams who hit cities and don’t check on their 10 + gyms often, will go down quicker, but it’s getting retarted that we have to spent hours per day on just feeding berries – it’s a part time job now and it’s not worth it … clearly they want us spend more money on raids, to get more berries….

    • vegetano1

      6+ gyms ;p but yeah gyms suck now,.. there is no GAME,….

  • Yoni Renders

    Probably the worst thing niantic has done in a long while, i wasn’t to motivated to do gyms anymore after the update because there was no use in trying to defend one for your team because when u did you didn’t get anything, now they make them impossible to defend… If you want your active players to stop doing gyms and get borred with the game, this is a bloody good start if you ask me..

    • Daniel Doiron

      there’s no fun anymore, now it’s check/feed your gyms every 6-8H , lets all spend a lot of money doing raids, because we’ll run out of berries quick now …

      • Dan

        So, what’s more fun: battling gyms consistently to try to take them, or hitting the “collect” button once a day? I vote the first option.

        • Patti Bennett

          Working with yor teammates to hold your area, attempting to keep other factions out. Fighting to keep your status. I can’t figure out why everyone is so willing to pay several dollars a day to claim 50 cents. For me it isn’t now, nor has it ever been about the coins. It’s about being the very best. Not about being the weakest and getting my 50 cents. I’ve spent real money on the game, 50 coins is a joke. I’ll hang in for a while though, see what Niantic does when the kids go back to school and the weak go inside for the winter. I’ve just passed 10k gym defender hours. That’s fun for me. Want to play with higher level players? Play harder.

      • Patti Bennett

        Spoofers were bad before, now it’s worse. A low level garbage spoofer will pull down all the gyms in an area in a couple minutes. The only way to fight back is to put pokemon in with less than 100 cp. Then at least they are earning no gym points for the battles. Jerk them around for a while then toss in your best Blissies. It’s not ideal, but somewhere you’ve blocked a sofa surfer. Just FYI, if a high level trainer is putting in super low level pokemon, it isn’t because they have nothing better.

  • Mirek Mareš

    I have idea… Why the current Pokémon defending the gym doesnt get 1 cp permanently ? It would be great solution to give people reason to hold multiple gyms.

    Because now i dont know why should I hold one or more gyms for longer time than the 50 golds per day.

    And this change totally destroys the last things like team territories etc. It Is so easy to destroy any gym now.

  • Skye Donald

    No one has mentioned how this is *yet another way* to screw over rural players. In larger communities, there will be more folks feeding berries to the defenders to keep the topped up. Not so in smaller towns. This is a terrible “fix”. At the very least, they could increase the number of berries / hour that you can feed to Pokemon at a gym.

    • vegetano1

      You would be feeding berry’s all day,….

    • Robdebobrob

      Theres ALOT of active players in my city. We dont feed gyms anymore like that. We used to, now you just throw nanabs at gyms till youre out and hope your gym stays up till 00:00. It goes down so fast there is no point in feeding. No difference there between rural and city.

  • okieoneshinobi

    This totally sucks. I don’t even want to play any more. They ruined gyms.

  • vegetano1

    Bring back Prestige Gyms,….. Niantic can’t just completely change a game when trainers have played a whole year with prestige gyms,.. the new gyms suck,.. i bought $20 coins a month just for fun and now all mon’s are useless,..

    • Zapmeister

      A return to prestige gyms, with the unique defender rule and more effort to punish the spoofers would be awesome. But it won’t happen because too much time and money has been invested in creating the new one, and they’re never going to admit it’s broken.

      • Peter Elderson

        Unique defender rule is ok. Defender decay and near-feeding is ok. Adding pokemon to gym should require some effort, you should earn your place. To make gyms interesting for all players, they should do something with player levels, so you contend with your equals and a few levels above to boost ambition.

        • Mark Tanaka

          I agree with this, hopefully they will reintroduce some way of rewarding all our (high level) work.
          For what it’s worth, I focus now on upgrading gyms in my area. Lots of them. Since most potions and revives get thrown out.

  • Peter Elderson

    The game gets less and less interesting for advanced players.

    • Partysaurus Rex

      High level = advanced? Interesting…

      • Peter Elderson

        You advance through the levels and counts. I can’t see any other type of advancement in this game. If there is, please enlighten me.

        • Dan

          Just because you’re a high level, doesn’t mean you’re advanced. In fact, someone that was level 38 was telling people in our raiding group NOT to use Vaporeon’s against a Moltres, but to use Jolteon instead, but Jolteon has a higher defense and a resistance to Fire. I’m a lower level, and had to tell him in detail exactly why he’s wrong.

          • Peter Elderson

            advanced NE perfect. Advanced players can be wrong about something.

          • Partysaurus Rex

            My point exactly. Higher level simply means you have invested more time, but by no means make you better or more capable or ready for more complex play. 10/10 Dan.

  • Cathead

    This is extremely annoying. They punish people for playing their game. I walked my Blisseys for miles to power them up over 3000 😩 then I had to walk more miles to power up other Blisseys to 2500 😭. (Don’t get me started on the literal 500 miles I walked my Lapras.) Now it’s all for naught and nothing matters anymore. Might as well put those pidgies in.

    • Michal Husak

      Welcome in the club ! I had done the same as you did and I am totally disappointed by the faster motivation lose … Gym defense have absolutely no sense now …

      • Peter Elderson

        I think the motivation loss is good. Feeding for motivation, fine. It means you can hold your gym as long as you go there and put some work in it, if you don’t you wil lose it. Remote feeding should go, it makes no sense.

        • Michal Hušák

          Remote feeding give sense only when you use rainbow bery 3x daily. Standard bery efectivnes is to low on long distance. The effort to hold pokemon in gym is not worth the result. The best strategy i to put 20 pigeot in 20 gym and let them kill …

          • Peter Elderson

            Thanks, I’ll try that. For variation I’ll throw in some sentret and ledyba. That’ll teach them!

          • Michael Srsic

            I’m going with Shuckle , decay that!

        • Dan

          Remote feeding makes sense when you take a gym and someone tries to take it within 10 minutes of you taking it, but you don’t have enough time to get back there to feed it.

          • Peter Elderson

            Feeding berries to defend against an ongoing attack is useless. You’ll lose anyway, because you can’t keep feeding but they can keep attacking it just takes a few minutes more, and everybody is just frustrated.

    • Peter Elderson

      Now at least the 3000 threshold is gone, so powering up above 3000 is no longer futile. But the extra power does little good in gyms, it’s ridiculously easy for a few players to win any gym. I can take any gym alone in average 5-10 minutes, as can the core players of other teams.

  • Michael Srsic

    I rarely take a full weekend off and did this weekend. After watching my effort to take gyms Friday evening vanish completely by the time I woke up Saturday morning, I used my time off for other things. No Pokemon at all.
    I think I’ll try trellising roses. At least my rewards will match my time and effort.

  • Sam Burton

    At first I thought the new gym meta was better as it seemed to deal with the spoofing crisis, but after playing it for a while and seeing how pointless the gym scene is becoming I’m almost wishing they never changed it and would rather have to contend with spoofers!

    • Patti Bennett

      I haven’t seen any decline in spoofers.

  • Patti Bennett

    Pokemon “everyone gets a trophy”. Why work for something when, if you cry and whine long enough they’ll just give it to you. Boohoo, I don’t want to put in the time or do the grind but I should get the same rewards as those who did.

    • Dan

      It’s about the player base. The easier you make it for someone to get something, the more people are going to try for it, which is exactly what they wanted in the first place.

      But I can’t get past the irony of you crying and whining about people crying and whining.

  • Niantic just destroyed the gym play, our investments, and any meritocracy and competiveness in the game; what a shame…

    My two-line story: Level 40, dedicated player; so many hours, miles walked, dedication and love for the game, plus a few real money invested… Just the previous day I powered up my Blissey to 2985 and my Steelix to 2300. (Please notice, I have other Blissey too, 3000+, which had already been made useless, as all the 3000+ defensive pokemon, by Niantic.) And just the next day, Niantic responded:

    LOSER!… We made a fool out of you again! Your pokemon is useless again! We stole your investment, and ridiculed your dedication! LOSER!…

    All pokemons black in a couple of hours. Any scope to build up strong pokemons, gone. Any meritocracy in the game, gone. Any competiveness, gone.

    I want someone from this company to explain to us:
    What’s the purpose, now, in the game? Stardust, supposed to be the most valuable asset, it’s of no purpose anymore. The point of powering up your pokemons doesn’t exist. Where is the meritocracy in the competition between the players?

    And last but not least:

    Why such lack of respect to your best customers? How do you say “thank you!” at least to the level-40 players who reached the top? Give them at least a 100% or 98% legendary of their team (Articuno for Mystic, etc), give them at least some masterballs, give them at least a… badge, something, for God’s sake! (And, so, give to the lower level players too, motivation to reach the top themselves also.)

    What a shame, indeed; so disappointed…

    • Terri

      I totally agree with you. I’ve invested many hours and some money also to build a good team, with high CP and great IVs. I really enjoyed the game because it was competitive and it motivated me to build up my pokemon. It was fun to fight and take down gyms AND get an immediate reward for doing so. Now there’s absolutely no motivation. I make my rounds to hit some pokestops and pass the gyms. If there’s an open space I’ll drop one of my lousiest guys in there because who cares? I get nothing and probably will be knocked out before I get 50 coins.

      I hate that Niantic did this to their most loyal players. I don’t expect anything for free but I want the game back.

    • vegetano1

      I wander how far a company can go to change a game because this is not the pokemon go i have played this year,… i thought i was/am playing pokemon go but i think iets Niantic thats playing with me,… XD

    • waraw1968

      You don’t need to be level 40 to feel this. Many players feel the same and agree with you, bro…

    • Dan

      Stardust is absolutely, and never will be, useless. You still need to power up your attackers for raids and gym battles.

      And again, as I keep telling people, the new gym system is not about staying in gyms for perpetuity. It’s about gym turnover. I’m sorry you feel that way, but here’s the analogy that best fits:

      It’s 2007 in the US housing market. The bankers can give out mortgages to anyone they feel like with not proof of income or proof of job. These mortgages are called NINJa loans. In 2008, the housing market crashed because people were taking full advantage of this, but couldn’t pay their mortgages back. The government stepped in to protect the regular people from the bankers so that they can get mortgages as intended. This was a course correction, and while it took people some time to get used to, it set the economy on a proper course. The bankers are the spoofers, the government is Niantic, and the people are the general gaming public. Spoofers run rampant in this game to get around the rules. Niantic doesn’t want them sitting in gyms. So, they make these changes to keep the spoofers down. Is there a better way? Maybe. But I haven’t seen ANYONE suggest anything that would make it difficult for spoofing, but would make gym battling more enjoyable for the rest of us.

      By the way, having a Blissey anywhere north of 2800 CP makes it impossible to take that gym when at full motivation. Don’t be that guy.

      • Oliver Neukum

        That is like putting a bullet into your head to cure a headache. Technically it will work. Acceptable a solution it is not. The new gym system makes no sense, turnover or no turnover. Pokemon are made for combat. If one side cannot fight back, there will be no combat. This change has turned gyms into Pokestops by another name. But we already had Pokestops.

      • Frank KaLee

        Complain all you want but let’s not forget that Niantic is here to make money. If it thinks it can make more money by motivating low level players and discouraging high level players, it will do so. High level players (me included) are a very very small minority. They don’t make much money off us. In fact, they are losing potential money because we make it harder for low level players to enjoy the game. I have friends who are lower level who have given up on the game because they just can’t get into any gyms. Niantic is trying to bring those lower level players back into the game (and hopefully make more money).

    • Finn Brown

      Yeah know all i put in qyms now are magicarp and other bad mons so i can get them kicked out

  • Diskus1

    “gym difficulty has been significantly decreased”… It’ll be a LOT easier to grab new gyms… you only need a total of 8 hours 20 minutes stay time amongst all your pokemon per day… easier now, especially a lot easier to know they’ll all come home the same day. So much easier to estimate if you need to grab more gyms or not. No more stagnation.

    • Patti Bennett

      Coins are not the goal for everyone. Not by a long shot. I don’t want coins. I want to be the best.

  • Bunny

    Very nice update! Makes gym way more dynamic and even low level player can get their part of the cake now when blissey is only 800cp left after the night.

    Also edgy players crying in the comments because they cant clog up gyms anymore give me life 🙂

    • Peter Elderson

      Every morning all gyms are depleted. Can’t hold on to them, no use trying because the reward is futile. Newer players can play around, but it gets old after a few days.
      Favoring new players is fine, but they too get higher quickly, then they too need serious rewards and want to hold on to gyms.
      Reward should be for keeping the gym, not for losing it. And it should be worthwile. 50 coins a day is ridiculous. It means you have to play a week for one lousy incubator, one lousy raid pass and one lousy lure. That does not encourage new players at all!

    • vegetano1

      you mean when all mon’s are cp<800 over night,.. there is no "game" anymore,.. adding mon's and feeding,.. what fun,..

      life? the gyms are dead,.. THX!!

      • Bunny

        Just got 5years younger by reading that (*´▽`*)

      • Patti Bennett

        Agreed. Because cutting through weak crap like a hot knife through doft butter is “dynamic”. I can’t even enjoy the animation they fall so dadt. Except Mr. Mime. He’s funny when he falls

    • Patti Bennett

      Perhaps you should have just worked harder. You must be a millenial.

  • Zapmeister

    Quick count of the 10 posts below (at the time of writing) and it looks like the folks that hate the new gyms outnumber the ones that don’t by four to one. Not counting me. Just saying.

    • Zapmeister

      Actually, I kept on reading, and its much worse than 4:1. Does anyone from Niantic read this forum?

    • vegetano1

      The new gyms sucked at day 1 gym rework,…

  • Joe1407

    The gyms are now made so a level 5 can beat it. There is no fun in the gyms any more. 1/2 the coins, no need for large CP’s, it sucks. the game is going down hill very fast. There need to be a big change in the people in charge. Fire them all and hire some of the players.

    • Dan

      How is gym turnover not fun? You get to use the pokemon you’re feeding star dust to much more often.

      • Adam Tischner

        Stops don’t dole out enough berries

    • Patti Bennett

      Agreed. Weakened for weak, lazy trainers.

  • AverageGamers

    “gym difficulty has been significantly decreased”

    And increased as well. I assign some to the Gyms this morning, now (evening) all of them are zero. Dang!!!

    And the bug that unfavorite Pokemon after being remotely fed still isn’t fixed.

  • Aidan Wong

    Solo raids please!

  • Aidan Wong

    I hate it, too, when you join a raid battle, and there is no one there… then I have to face the boss alone. They should add a least player cap. If that number is not reached a refund raid pass would be nice

  • Aidan Wong

    Id like solo raids where I fight a boss of reduced power

  • Aidan Wong

    Like from 40000 CP to 10000CP and catch something stronger

  • Jeroen Dekker

    This is indeed a a good and bad decision in 1 go.
    Rate goes down to fast, and there is no challange fighting a gym anymore, the defending mons don’t even have a chance against attackers even if they all have full CP I use 1 Dragonite or 1 Lugia and I can beat all 6 in 1 go no matter what’s in the gym (Blissey/Snorlax/Tyranitar/Garydos/Vaporeon/other) okay sometimes when I get my dodges wrong I use 2 but in most cases all die the first round full CP as they can barely make a charge move (Blissey and Snorlax can just manage to squeeze out 1 and or if the pokemon has a 3 bar chargemove it can do it too)
    No fun no fun and with the decay rate now at 10% in a hour it’s even less of a challange.

    Before the gym rework I realy had to fight again the defending mons, they either killed my whole set of 6 or I had 1 or 2 left, but the defended quite good,at least it was a real challange.

    Hope they will adjust some math that goes into it in the near future so that gyms again will be a challange to fight against and test your own mons and skills.

    The only positive thing is I now have is certainty of 50 coins a day where before Blue always controlled gyms for days, weeks or even months and I was lucky I had 20 coins a day as Valor player.

  • Peg Janssens

    I only place cp900+ mons in gyms, heart decrease is as old. See screenshot after 1 night, 2 mons in cp900+, rest are mons cp1000+ https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d7c93e0355b74062007f3be96f2303a45bfe29d64c2be672acd0a0794ceb890f.png

  • Joe1407

    I miss the battle of trying to take down a level 10 gym. I miss the xp points, now you only get 150 no mater how many battles you have. With the faster decay rates, why bother with a take down. I am in 13 gym and not a one, that I had to take down. I want the fight, of a higher CP pokemon. I miss the training of my pokemon. We loss a lot of what the game play should be. For what a money grab? Look at what has changed. For me the game has gone down and there bottom line has gone up.

  • Adam Tischner

    Extreme motivation decrease update ruins the game IMO. Well, ruins the game for people who are willing to spend money on it anyway…

    Since the start, I’ve been active without missing a single day. Started a very successful PoGo FB group, and admin another. Level 40 since March. Struggling to see the point of even opening the app PoGo app now.

    I’ve spent a lot of time hatching all these, powering them up… and overnight, it’s all for nothing.

    Niantic doesn’t owe me anything… I *only literally* got what I paid for. But, I did expect them to be useful in the game.

    It seems like there is a way to keep seasoned players playing, and new players interested. They could make two types of gyms. How about 1 in 10 gyms is reverted back to old school prestige, except no repeated mons. This could be a showcase for the high level players to enjoy and the new/casual players to work up to. Then, the kids table gyms still exist, and everyone might be happy.

    Or, just dole out more berries I’d be down with that.

    • Adam Tischner

      Talking about the 5,818 eggs hatched up the post above…